Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Topics - wolfns

Pages: [1] 2
1
Holland America Line / Holland America / SBN
« on: 25/March/2024 »
Pozdrav, malo je usporio Forum sa radom, ali nadam se da ce oziveti ponovo, zajedno sa ostatkom industrije.

Radoznao sam ima li clanova koji plove za Holland America i Seabourn? Da popijemo neko pivo na brodu...

2
Pozdrav svima. Evo da doprinesem sekciji o zivotu posle broda.

Poceo sam pre mesec dana da radim u Holandiji u Carnivalovom trening centru kao instruktor. Ponuda je OK, generalno dobri uslovi i radna atmosfera. Ako nekog interesuje nesto konkretno, neka pita. Ima puno radnih mesta za oficire palube, masine ili struje, kao i za environmental oficire, pa ako neko hoce vise informacija neka pise.  Centar je moderan, dosta lepo organizovan i pri tom se siri jos u narednih nekoliko godina. Svaki oficir u orporaciji (deck, eng i elec) mora minimum jednom godisnje da dodje ovde na neki trening.
Za sada ima jedan kurs za ostale departmane, tako da vec dolaze i ljudi iz restorana, bara, kuhinje, HR i slicno. Verujem da ce se i to u buducnosti povecati, tako da cu barem neke od vas koji su na supervizorskim pozicijama mozda i videti ovde u buducnosti. 

Preselio sam se sa suprugom i eto pocinjemo novi zivot. Moram priznati da je dosta tesko navici se na slobodne vikende, nemanje dezurstva, standardno radno vreme....
Ono sto mi najvise nedostaje je upravo ono sto na brodu najvise izludjuje...neizvesnost, jurnjava, problemi, napetost i brz ritam.

Pozitivnih stvari je mnogo zaista, pogotovo sto je u pitanju posao u struci i sto ne gubim pomorsko iskustvo mnogo, tako da ne bi trebalo biti problema ako pozelim da se vratim na brod.

Potpuno razumem sve kojima je tesko da se naviknu na normalan zivot posle broda, pogotovo sto u nasim drzavama situacija nije sjajna, pa kada se dodaju jos i novcani problemi i rad za male pare, mogu samo da zamislim kako je.

Holandija mi se za sada dopada, plata je OK, al svakako se oseti razlika. Kad sam bio na brodu, nisam morao da brinem o novcu, sve je sredjeno. Sad je opet malo druga prica. Kad se potrosi ustedjevina sa broda (uskoro, jer treba da uzmemo kucu na hipoteku), bice zivot od plate do plate :) .

3
Pozdrav raja, hoce li biti neko od forumasa na Rubiju na leto? Ja se ukrcavam izgleda 26.8. do 24.11., nadam se da ce biti neka dobra ekipa.

Kakav je brod? Atmosfera, ljudi, crew life?

4
Pozdrav svima,

Moze li neko da napise nesto o radu tehnicke sluzbe na NCL-u? Imao sam intervju pre neki dan za 2nd ETO, pa sad cekam da vidim sta ce odluciti. U svakom slucaju, bio bih zahvalan za bilo kakvu informaciju od posade sa NCLa.

Hvala!

5
Nisam siguran gde da smestim ovu temu, tako da se nadam da ce joj Sef naci bolje mesto.

Iducega leta ili krajem godine planiram da se prikljucim brodu Africa Mercy kao volonter (po oko mesec dana, tokom odmora, kako mi druge obaveze dozvole).

Radi se o brodu-bolnici koji je baziran u Africi i radi na misionarskom principu. Posadu cine volonteri koji provode na brodu od par nedelja do par godina.

Istina da je ovo forum za ljude koji traze placeni posao na brodu, al eto i jedna ideja za vas veterane koji bi mogli da doprinesete jedoj ovako lepoj misiji, a da usput provedete vreme u Africi i steknete neka nova iskustva. \\

Oni uvek traze volontere, tako da bi i za nekog pocetnika ovo mogla biti pocetna stanica za ulazak u pomorsku industriju. Za hotel departmant je lako otici na kruzer, al za tech npr. je to ipak malo teze sa kopna. Neko vreme odradjeno na ovom brodu bi moglo da vam bude dovoljno za pocetak karijere na moru.

Na sajtu pise da troskove avio karte snosite sami, al to se moze dogovoriti sa njima, ako predstavlja problem.

vise info na: https://www.mercyships.org/



6
Pozdrav svima,

Dobih kao odgovor na jednu od mojih prijava za posao sledeci e-mail.


Atlantic Offshore Rescue Ltd.
Atlantic House
21-27 Commerce Street
Aberdeen, AB11 5FE
Scotland, United Kingdom.
14th December, 2015.

Attention: Boban Magoc,

Atlantic Offshore Rescue Ltd. is a supplier of MRV and PSV services to the oil and gas industry that customers prefer to work with and employees prefer to work for, We owns and operates vessels within several market segments, eg, Multi role Rescue Vessels (Rescue/Environmental/Supply/Tanker Assist Vessels) and Platform Supply Vessels. And we wishes to be the preferred employer for crews employed in the ERRV sector of the marine industry, and to these regards, We fully wish your services as an ELECTRICAL OFFICER hence your experience and qualification was found satisfactory by our Human Resources Department to occupy this position.
Your details were forwarded to our Human Resources Department by the Company employee consultant. On indication of interest do forward your updated Resume/CV to our human resources department at info@atlanticoffshoreukltd.com

Job Details and Compensations.
Maintains and repairs electrical power generating and distribution systems; voltage regulators, engine governors, and equipment; machinery monitoring and remote control systems; power, control, and display systems of deck and science-related equipment, and DC propulsion generators, motors, and control circuits. Assists with repairs in port. Assist the Chief Engineer in maintaining certification of electric equipment, automation and alarm systems, and perform necessary work, control and inspections in order to renew the certificates. Assist in requisition and purchase of electrical spares, services and consumables. Maintenance of Joystick/DP System, where fitted. Other duties as required by vessel staff.

Job Duration……..24 months

Rotation….28days on and 28days off

Salary…… Salary range will be between £5,700 to £7,700 per month + other allowances.

Job location…..United Kingdom
We are open for accepting Resumes/C Vs. till the 31st of December, 2015.

Regards,
Mr. Richard Smith
Human Resources Department.
info@atlanticoffshoreukltd.com



Posto mi je e-mail adresa malo cudna, proverio sam doticni sajt i nista se nije poklapalo. Na zvanicnom sajtu firme o kojoj se radi stoji da trenutno njihov UK ofis ne zaposljava nove radnike.

Poslao sam im e-mail na adresu sa sajta koja je operations@atlantic-offshore.co.uk  i dobio sam sledeci odgovor:

Good Morning B****

 

Please accept my apologies on behalf of Atlantic Offshore Rescue Limited as this is a scam e-mail.

 

 

Regards

Andy Ritchie

Fleet Operations Manager(UK)

Atlantic Offshore Rescue Ltd

Atlantic House

21-27 Commerce Street

Aberdeen

AB11 5FE

 

Tel: 0044 1224 212159

Fax: 0044 1224 211513

Mobile: 07734 417 723

Email: amr@atlantic-offshore.co.uk

 

Atlantic Offshore Rescue Ltd is a Company registered in England with Company Number 5875324. The registered office of the Company is No 1 London Bridge Street, London SE1 9GB



Ako neko naleti na njih i ako ima zivaca, neka odgovori, pa da vidimo sta ce da traze i koja je prica. Meni se nije dalo, pa sam samo poslao sledecu fotku koju sam nasao na nekom sajtu, a govori o istom scam mejlu:




7
‎Ima li nekog od forumasa na SUN Princess-u? Ukrcava li se još ko 25og?

8
Princess Cruises / MHG Benefits - Vacation Medical Plan
« on: 02/September/2015 »
Aloha!

Pricao sam sa nekoliko ljudi koji rade za Princess Cruises i potegli smo temu zdrastvenog osiguranja. Koliko vidim, niko od njih nije koristio Princessov Vacation Medical Plan vec kad idu kod lekrara, zakazuju po drzavnim ambulantama i cekaju, a po raznim privatnim laboratorijama placaju...
Meni Princess salje uz svaki ugovor MHG brosure, zar to nije slucaj za sve? Svi koji rade za Princess (osim drzavljana odredjenih zemalja) imaju automatski MHG benefit program osiguranja i Vacation Medical.

Pre sam isao kod raznih privatnih lekara po NS i skupljao racune. Sve je uredno refunirano. Sada se lecim u Bel Medic klinici u Beogradu posto imaju apsolutno sve objedinjeno na jednom mestu. Manje troskove pokrivam sam, pa saljem racune osiguranju, a za vece placaju direktno bolnici. Sada treba da idem na dve operacije (circa 4k eura) i to sve direkt pokriva MHG. Ovo je mozda i najskuplja bolnica u drzavi, pa niko ne pravi pitanje za troskove.

Koristi li jos neko ovo? Nadam se da svi Princessovi zaposleni znaju da ne moraju da koriste nasu knjizicu ukoliko treba zakazivati, cekati, placati... vec lepo mogu kod najboljeg lekara po izboru...


http://www.mediafire.com/view/9k2j78hlhp4hthp/MHG_Marine_Benefits_-_medical_plan_-_March_09.pdf

9
http://www.seanews.com.tr/news//150623/

(Sefe, net mi je katastrofa, bicu zahvalan ako smestis temu na prikladno mesto) :)

10
MTN internet je totalno popi*deo kod nas od pre nekih nedelju dana... zna li neko sta se desilo? Da nije pinga, imao bi bolji net nego kod kuce...
Kontam da hoce da pokazu sta cemo izgubiti prelaskom na Haris... jbt, da je ovako bilo ne bi niko ni hteo da predje...


11
Pozdrav! Koje kruz kompanije imaju minimalan procenat italijanskih oficira? Razmisljam o promeni firme i ovo mi je glavni kriterijum za sada (italijanke mi ne smetaju doduse...).

12
Pozdrav svima. Evo nekoliko knjiga za one koje zanima inzenjerija ili elektro departman na brodu.

Za elektrase je korisno da znaju sto vise o svemu za sta se inzenjeri brinu, posto je mnogo lakse popravljati nesto ako znas sta i kako to radi.
Svima koji nisu radili na brodu savetujem da krenu od INTRO TO MARINE ENGINEERING...

Zakacicu ovih dana jedan manual za brod, koji bas ne bih javno objavljivao, pa neka mi se javi na pvt ako je neko zainteresovan.

http://www.mediafire.com/view/5mcflxbrynry5gz/Marine_Auxiliary_Machinery_7E.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/?bztic7y2rytazma

http://www.mediafire.com/?mc2kpoax0aahkl4

13
mi za 4 dana idemo na DD. .. ne znam da li da se radujem ili da kukam ;) Za tech ce biti 12h dnevno rad. Srecom, ne bi trebalo biti puno water shutdowna...

Dry Dock ti je normalan deo ugovora, samo zavisi od pozicije kako ces biti placen za taj period...

14
Pozdrav svima!

Evo da se javim malo i da prenesem neke utiske za sve koje zanima rad u tehnickoj sluzbi. Kolega Electrician moze da uporedi ako hoce pa da nam kaze koliko se to razlikuje kod njega.

Dakle, da krenemo od starta...
Tehnicki departman se kod nas sastoji od 75 ljudi od cega su 20 oficiri i 55 crew. Trenutno nemamo pripadnica lepseg pola...
Glavna faca je naravno Chief Engineer a njegova desna i leva ruka su Staff Engineer (vodi masinski deo) i Staff Electrical Technical Officer (u daljem tekstu SETO).
Ako nekoga zanima nesto o bilo kojoj poziciji, neka pita, ja cu se koncentrisati na elektro deo.


Elektro departman se deli kod nas na Electrcal workshop i Electronics workshop (comunication centre- COMMS).  Sef oba dela je SETO a pojedinacna odelenja vode 1st ETO i 1st ETC.
COMMS na nasem brodu ima samo jednog oficira (1st ETC), dva fitera i jednog Audio/Video operatera. Oni su zaduzeni za sve komunikacije, navigaciju i elektroniku. Takodje, pod ovaj departman spada razglas i TV.
Electrical workshop ima trenutno 4 oficira i 6 fitera:
1st ETO- sef; 2nd ETO-Engine room; 3rd ETO - lifts i 3rd ETO-Safety
Senior ele fitter - Engine room; Senior ele fitter- Laundry&safety; Senior ele fitter - hotel; Ele fitter - Gally; 2nd Ele Fitter- Lifts&assist lights; 2nd Ele Fitter - Lights;
SETO i 1st ETO su zaduzeni za high voltage (generatori i propulzija)

Radno vreme je od 8:00 do 12:00 i od 14:00 do 18:00. Pauze za kafu su od 10:00 do 10:30 i od 16:00 do 16:30. U sustini, svodi se na 7 sati efektivnog rada. Prekovremeno je veoma retko posto nam nije placeno dodatno. Svake nedelje (osim kad je bas busy) imamo produzenu pauzu za rucak, sto zanci da se nastavlja posao u 16h. Jednom mesecno dobijemo pola dana slobodno, sto znaci da radimo samo prvu smenu do 12. Sve u svemu, ne mogu se zaliti.

Sto se samog posla 3rd ETO tice, relativno je lagano ako znas sta radis i ako su kolege i sefovi OK. Ja sam imao srecu da je tim zaista super pa su mi prilicno olaksali prvi ugovor. Kada sam dosao, trebalo je po planu da budem na treningu jedan ceo ugovor od 4 meseca. Posle nekih 20ak dana je odluceno da cu ipak preuzeti poziciju odmah, sto je za mene bilo super posto mi je plata za trening bila manja nego sada od kada mi je potvrdjen rank.
Prvo zaduzenje su mi bili liftovi i pokretna stepenista. Jewel ima 17 liftova i 4 eskalatora. Posto je u pitanju ultra star brod, ima dosta posla oko redovnog i vanrednog odrzavanja, al desi se cesto da danima nemam sta pametno da radim. To vreme sam uglavnom provodio ili u kabini citajuci razne manuale i knjige ili radeci sa kolegama i upoznavajuci se sa Engine room delom posla i sa safety sistemima (fire detection, watertight doors, fire screen doors, low location lights, lifeboats, itd.). Taj drugi 3rd ETO je bio OK decko, al slabo mi je sta pokazao ili objasnio, mozda zato sto ni sam nije znao sta radi :) .  Deo posla za ETO podrazumeva i pomaganje fiterima kad imaju nekih problema, al moram priznati da su nasi momci skroz OK, tako da nemamo tu nekih za*****ancija.
2nd ETO i dva treca ETO-a dele dezurstvo, tako da sam dezuran svaki treci dan. Uglavnom me zovu kad se neko zaglavi u liftu ili kad je problem u engine room. Za sve sitne stvari (svetla, kuhinja, laundry), zovu dezurnog fitera, a ako je nesto sa high voltage onda se zove SETO direktno.
Pre par nedelja je otisao kolega koji je radio Safety deo a lik koji ga je trebao zameniti je dao otkaz bez da se najavi, samo se nije pojavio... Zbog ovog sam morao da preuzmem safety bez handovera i bukvalno da ucim iz shema i manuala. Snasao sam se srecom OK, al bilo je za*****ano u pocetku. Novi 3rd ETO je new hire i nikada nije bio na kruzeru. Radio je nesto na kargo brodovima, tako da ima neke osnove, al sto se posla 3rd ETO tice, sve mu je novo totalno. Uglavnom smo zajedno, ucim ga o liftovima i zajedno se snalazimo i ucimo safety.
Ugovor mi se zavrsava za mesec dana (produzen mi je do kraja Dry-Docka). Zamena mi dolazi za desetak dana, radimo handover sedmicu dana i onda se ja prebacujem na projekat remonta eskalatora. Imamo cetiri eskalatora za kuhinju i glavni restoran i nisu imali neko ozbiljno odrzavanje od kako su napravljeni. Bukvalno su u uzasnom stanju i svako majstor do sada ih je samo krpio pomocu stapa i kanapa. Ja sam se uhvatio da pokusam da ih sredim i kako sta taknem tako se jos vece s**** pojavi. Uglavnom, trazio sam da mi daju dva mehanicara i rezerne delove i da napravimo komplet remont, sto je napokon odobreno, tako da mi je produzen ugovor i ostajem samo da to zavrsim...

3rd ETO je dakle oficirska pozicija koja nosi 1 strajp. Privilegije na P&O ukljucuju single kabinu (par fotki ukljuceno), kabin stjuarta, besplatan laundry, officer's mess i malo bolje employee benefits u odnosu na crew i staff. Sto se mene licno tice, u poredjenju sa predhodnim ugovorom kada sam bio na desku, sada mi pored plate najvise znaci single kabina, sto je olaksavajuca okolnost za after party aktivnosti.






Ajd ovoliko od mene za sada.. ako koga sta zanima, shoot.


15
poz, ne znam gde da smestim ovu temu pa je zato spala pod "razno".
Da li je neko koristio neki od benefits programa za Princess ili neku drugu kompaniju?
Ne znam da li ste znali, posto se slabo reklamira, da svaki crew/staff sa 5+ godina sluzbe ili off sa 1+ godina moze da ide na kruz za 15$dnevno i da pivede jos troje ljudi po istoj ceni.
Uglavnom, 15$ je za sve odrasle a 8$ je za decu ako su na trecem i cetvrtom krevetu...

Employee Space Available Cruise Program

The Employee Space Available Cruise Program offers Shipboard staff the opportunity to sail as passengers on Princess Cruises vessels at reduced rates, on a space-available basis.
The Company reserves the right to capacity-control this program and may restrict the number of employees on any sailing.

ELIGIBILITY

Officers who have been employed or contracted by Princess Cruises for more than (12) twelve months. All other crew who have been employed or contracted by Princess Cruises for more than (5) five years. Seasonal staff that have been employed or contracted by Princess Cruises for more than (5) five years and have worked a minimum of 100 days.

FREQUENCY

Officers with less than four (4) years of continuous service may take one (1) cruise pre calendar year.
Officers with more than four (4) years of continuous service may take a maximum of two (2) cruises per calendar year.

NOTE: A cruise taken by spouse or partner traveling without the Officer will be counted as one (1) of the Officer’s cruises.

All other crew, including Seasonal Staff, will be entitled to a maximum of two (2) cruises per calendar year once they have met the eligibility requirements.

POLICIES & PROCEDURES

To apply, all eligible shipboard staff must submit a completed Employee Space Available Request form to the Fleet Personnel department for up to four sailings, which will be reviewed for availability in chronological order based on departure date. The application should be received 30 days prior to the intended date of travel.

Shipboard staff may apply for a cruise at concession rates subject to:

a) Passenger Space Availability
b) Payment of the concession fares detailed below together with any applicable land-package, port or other charges.
c) Cabin allocation being strictly at the discretion of the Company.

While requests will be dealt with on a “first come – first served” basis, priority will be based on a staff member’s seniority and years of service with the Company.
The number of relatives traveling at any one time is at the discretion of the Company.

MINIMUM AGE REQUIREMENTS

Children under six (6) months are not eligible to travel. The minimum age for children to travel onboard is six (6) months of age for cruises operating itineraries in North America (i.e. Alaska, Canada/New England, and Trans –Panama Canal), Mexico and the Caribbean. For all other cruising itineraries, the minimum age is twelve (12) months.

CONFIRMATIONS

Confirmation of the Employee Space Available Cruise Program may happen up to the date(s) requested.
There is no guarantee of confirmation.

Shipboard employees should note clearly on the request form their location for the period of forty (40) days prior to the requested sailing dates as well as their personal email address.
If a cruise has been approved, the applicant will be so advised by Fleet Personnel and given guidance on where to pay the applicable fare and any other charges.
Employees who have not been confirmed for their requested cruise will not be personally notified.
Do not contact the Fleet Personnel department to inquire regarding the status of a cruise request.

To ensure the efficiency of the Employee Space Available Cruise Program, please notify the Fleet Personnel department of any cancellation or change as soon as possible.

METHOD OF PAYMENT

The Fleet Personnel department is responsible for determining and notifying Shipboard staff of the appropriate method of payment.
Such payment is due to the Fleet Personnel department no later than three (3) business days from notice of amount due.
Once the applicable fare has been paid, a confirmation including booking number(s) and instructions for completing immigration information will be sent to the applicant.

Employee Space Available Rates for Inside Cabins Shipboard Staff
Spouse travelling with Shipboard Staff
Spouse travelling without Shipboard Staff utilising employee cruise concession
Children travelling with employee and/or spouse and sharing the same cabin (minimum applicable age through 18 years of age)
Unrelated adult guests travelling with employee and/or spouse and sharing the same cabin

Shipboard staff may request a higher category stateroom than listed above for an additional charge (Refer to Employee Space Available Request form).
Employees are reminded that these higher categories will only be offered at the discretion of Yield Management.

Arrangements and cost of travel to/from the ship, along with any other expenses, is the sole responsibility of those traveling.

NOTE: Shipboard Staff and/or guests are responsible for government fees and fuel surcharges (if any).

CANCELLATIONS

Once payment has been received, the following cancellation fees will apply:
Days prior to departure
31 days or more
7 to 30 days
Fewer than 7 days

"Total charges" includes cruise/cruise tour fare, any air booked through Princess, and pre-cruise/post-cruise package charges.

ONBOARD DISCOUNTS

The Employee Onboard Discount Program provides the privilege of enjoying special employee discounts for a variety of onboard services when sailing on a Princess ship (see chart below).
In addition to an employee benefit, Employee Onboard Discounts apply to ALL individuals occupying the same cabin as the employee.

All charges by employees and qualified stateroom guests are automatically added to the employees’ stateroom folio.
Discounts are applied at the end of the cruises, and are not reflected in receipts at the time of purchase.

On the last day of the cruise, the folio will show the original purchase(s), with a final credit entry totaling the employee discount for each charge type (e.g. Boutiques, Photography, etc.).
However, for shore excursions, the discount will be automatically applied to the original charge; therefore, a separate credit will not be shown on the folio.

All accounts must be settled at the Purser’s Desk prior to disembarkation. Any discounts that are not applied prior to disembarkation will not be honored after the employee leaves the ship.
No discounts apply to any other onboard services except those mentioned below. Discounts do not apply to gratuities that are automatically added to the stateroom on a per diem basis.

Area Discount

60% off all bar/beverages
25% off all dining room bar/beverages
Boutiques 20% off all items
Photo 60% off all photographs purchased in the Photo Gallery.

Note: This does NOT include package deals, such as photos purchased in conjunction with frames or albums.
In those cases, purchasing the photos separate to the ancillary products may be in the employee's best interest.

60% off video-related products. 20% off other products in the Photo Gallery.
20% off most shore excursions. Overland tours, some flightseeing tours, tours using private vehicles, and golf programs are not normally eligible for the discount.
Spas/ 40% off all services on port days only. 10% off on retail products in port or at sea.
Salon
Excluded: teeth whitening service; teeth whitening retail; acupuncture; Botox; any fitness exercise class.
Art under $5K = 20% off reserve price, and no buyer's premium;
Art over $5K = 10% off reserve price and no buyer's premium.

To receive the discount, employees must meet with the Art Director outside of the auction venue to show employee ID and arrange the purchase.
For original art, employees must participate in the auction and a discount will be applied to the final bid price.
25% off all Cruise Plus hotel packages purchased in advance of the cruise for (1)
Employees and their guests traveling on the Employee Space Available Cruise Program, and (2) employees and their guests traveling in the same stateroom with the employee on the Friends & Family Program.
25% discount on land tour packages
Land Tour requested directly through the Cruise Plus Packages Department. Payment must be made with the cruise payment, and cancellation penalties will be the responsibility of the employee.

Those traveling should bear in mind that full fare-paying passengers must come first at all times. They should, therefore, avoid any conduct which could result in passenger service being adversely affected or comment being made concerning the presence of those in receipt of a concession fare being onboard.

When onboard, Shipboard staff, their spouse and/or relatives are not permitted to gamble, including bingo, horse-racing and lotto.

CONDITIONS AND REGULATIONS OF CARRIAGE

All travelers are subject to the Conditions and Regulations of Carriage as outlined in Sections 14 (Baggage, Personal Effects, Liability Limitations) and 15 (Limitations on Carrier’s Liability, Indemnification) of the Passage Contract.

MEDICAL

The Company will not be liable for any medical or repatriation costs incurred by anyone using this facility and those traveling.
It is recommended that each traveler purchase appropriate insurance coverage prior to sailing.

Medical services and/or medicines prescribed/obtained through the Medical Center onboard will be charged at full cost.

For safety reasons, those who are pregnant must not travel prior to the 16th week or beyond the 24th week of their pregnancy.
They should obtain a report from their family practitioner outlining the obstetric history and confirming that there are no anticipated complications.
Prenatal/antenatal care must be fully established and all investigations planned by the obstetrical completed.

Pages: [1] 2